What is a Redundant Maneuver?????

[marauderbomber]

In response to Jeff Lovet comment that was stopped by Mitch Baker.
Jeff's comment...(Not sure I understand the "redundant" maneuver part.  A military roll, two-point roll and a four-point roll are all distinctively different and present as such to the judges. Please explain why a military roll and two-point roll cannot be in the same flight.)
As a flight judge I see nothing wrong with the different types of rolls mentioned in the above statement from Jeff.
I look at it in a couple different ways.
1) Each maneuver has to be started on the maneuvering line and completed accordingly with downgrades etc.
2) Every time you go to do another maneuver you have just as much a chance to make mistakes/downgrades as you do on any other maneuver.
Doing a two-point roll and then coming back and doing another two-point roll is what I recognize as a "REDUNDANT MANUEVER". 
Remember, you still have to do the 5 mandatory maneuvers.

Kenny

[jlovitt]

I did read that other post, but the original poster was Tim Lovett, not me.

Jeff

[marauderbomber]

"Oops", my bad...sorry Jeff for the mix-up.

Kenny

[Lawrence Harville]

I agree 2 point, 3 point 4 point, 6 point,slow roll  and etc  all different manuvers
I see nothing wrong with using your 5 optional manuvers as 5 types of rolls
however
i would think the pilot would do exibit a more creative performance and  a more representative performance than using the same TYPE of manuevers over and over
it would if nothing else be kind of boring to watch this flight routine
could we then do a slow fly by, fast fly by, medium fly by, medium fast fly by, medium slow fly by,  slow slow slow fly by

hey they are all different manuevers and require different skills
put me down for NOT in favor of redundant maneuvers

as for a definition of redundant maneuvers---like the Supreme Court of the U.S. said about pornography
I may not can explain it but--- I know it when I see it

[Tim Lovet]

"hey they are all different manuevers and require different skills
put me down for NOT in favor of redundant maneuvers"

That must be from some political speech somewhere.....

It would seem that
1. different style rolls are NOT redundant.
2. The presentation would be better to not have five different rolls as optional manuevers ( I agree with this)

I asked the question because I have seen several call sheets with a couple of rolls.

[Roly]

Hello All,

I would say that a "redundant" manouvre is a repeat of the same manouver in a flight routine.

The guidelines should say that the 5 optional manouvres must be differant and reflect the above.

Keep it simple.

Thanks,
        Roly

[Skymaster]

Absolutely Roly!